And, to an extent, Old Joe is right, it’s best to just ignore the paradox issues and enjoy the story for what it is. Or, if you're like us, you wrote down a list of sins you found in the film. Presumably, carving people up is one of the things time travel in Looper allows without too much fuss. Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange! Looper in general had a very lax view of time travel rules in favor of characterization and dialogue. ( Log Out / Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. In 2074, when the mob wants to get rid of someone, the target is sent into the past, where a hired gun awaits - someone like Joe - who one day learns the mob wants to 'close the loop' by … How do runes work? Current Joe tries to get Old Joe to talk about how time travel can actually work and Old Joe just yells at him that if they were to go into it they would spend all day drawing charts and shit. I’m not the first person to write about the problems with Looper, the Internet is littered with articles outlining why the… What remains of the killing-your-earlier-self paradox in general relativistic time travel … That's all. ( Log Out / SQL Server Logon Trigger Implications - are there any side effects possible in my scenario? First, we will start with asking – what exactly is a paradox? rev 2021.5.3.39192. What's the point in covering the viewfinder? Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. [Looper] What Happened to Seth's character? Looper - Why not send victims someplace to get cremated? Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Bender pointed out that nothing will change because if the politician changed the future, then he had no reason to go back in the past, and so the politician disappears and Nixon’s head wins the election by a “narrow landslide.”. It exists when a time traveler is caught in a loop of events that "predestines" or "predates" them traveling back in time. It looks like a causal loop, and the resolution looks like a universe-destroying paradox. While the plot is pretty interesting, the time-travel does create unescapable paradoxes which are hard to ignore. The four main paradoxes attributed to Eubulides, who lived in the fourth century BC, were “The Liar,” “The Hooded Man,” “The Heap,” and “The Horned Man” (compare Kneale and Kneale 1962, p114). But Abe doesn't seem to mind, saying it's dangerous but apparently acceptably so, and neither does the rest of the movie very much. Maybe it's self-correcting for minor things like a person not having any arms or legs(!! Edit: I just checked and their exact words were: Abe: Not if we can help it. We’ll start my posting marathon off with Looper, which I somehow found time to see during these last few weeks, don’t know how I did it, but I’m glad I did. There are some stories that break past the challenges of the topic. He has to be at a specified place, at a specified time, and instantly shoot the thing that appears in front of him. By mutilating him (but keeping him alive), they made old Seth a cripple and thus easier to kill, and then they capped him when he arrived at the address where they carved on to his arm. Further, why would this end scene happen at all? Looper. But that’s not what I want to talk about, what I want to talk about is the very thing that Willis refused to let us talk about, because talking about it kind of destroys the plot’s logic for the entire movie. Why are both conductors in a High Voltage Direct Curent powerline isolated from ground? Can a Rune Knight forge them? Joe 1 kills his older self, collects his money, retires, and then enters the time machine as a much older person, destined for the past (point C). I assume Abe and his gang know about this. Time travel is outlawed, so only outlaws have time travel. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. First, Seth had an address cut into his arm in order to send a message to future Seth of wear to go. I’m talking about the ridiculous use of time travel in this story. Traveling back to the past to change the future will inevitably cause the future to happen. Looper is no exception, and while I mentioned some problems with the plot in my review, the time travel plot holes were hardly a concern. For example, a looper can send a message to his older self by permanently carving it in his arm. Looper is a Science Fiction film directed by Rian Johnson, in which Joseph Gordon-Levitt plays a man named Joseph Simmons, and Bruce Willis plays a future version of Joe.. The grandfather paradox is a paradox of time travel in which inconsistencies emerge through changing the past. When you really think about it, Looper was a terrible film that made absolutely no sense. We’ve already established that changing your body in the present will change your body in the future, so why did Joe have to kill himself? Change ). When young Seth lets his loop run, he is captured and surgically torn apart piece by piece, causing the older Seth to lose the same body parts at the same time. The third type of story is probably the easiest to work with for purposes of being able to both change the future and not create paradoxes. It's creating problems with a new lock. It's more on the Back to the Future end of the time travel movie spectrum rather than the Primer end :). Time travel: why do we bother? Because this is a replacement theory story (history changes), such a paradox must be unraveled by finding an original cause. A looper is basically a hitman, but with a simpler task. A causal loop is a theoretical proposition in which, by means of either retrocausality or time travel, a sequence of events (actions, information, objects, people) is among the causes of another event, which is in turn among the causes of the first-mentioned event. I assume Abe and his gang know about this. Does it end the circle of violence? “Looper” adds a new wrinkle to the paradox situation. A time travel paradox is a logical contradiction or apparent contradiction which is associated with time travel generally. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. These events change the story for the current universe, but future Spock still remembers the events from his own universe as they should be and doesn’t disappear from the current universe when the time stream changes enough that the events that happened to him could no longer have possibly happened to have allowed him to remain in the current universe. Looper: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Paradox. First, Seth had an address cut into his arm in order to send a message to future Seth of wear to go. Then Old Seth slowly starts losing body parts while driving, as the gang is cutting up current Seth’s body, and here is the first unexplainable paradox. Does Joe’s suicide at the end work? You either loved it or hated it. Meaning of "Abfahrt" in East German slang, Do I need this special strike plate on my laundry room to garage entry? If there is only one timeline then the limbs should have all come off right away on the Older Seth. When Seth fails to close his loop and is on the run, Abe tells the gat men it would be preferable not to kill Seth because all sorts of bad (time travel paradox related) things could happen. ***SPOILER “The Looper Paradox”. The crux of the film is a predestination paradox, that is, an uncaused cause, an event which causes itself and therefore does not happen unless it happens. Why did Lupin make Harry practice his Patronus on a Boggart/Dementor? The story is the thing, but you also have to let go of any need to neatly line up the narrative pieces; trust the tale. After a couple horrible months prepping for finals, the horror is finally over, and it’s time to get back to the serious business of ranting about stuff. Yes, if you want to think of it … Since Abe's employers are in the future, I'm guessing they want him to minimize things like that. Is the measurement of distance and position of remote celestial bodies accurate? The answer given is good, but to add (and likely make things more confusing), wouldn't scarring up and removing young Seth's limbs have the potential to greatly affect the future as well? So here’s the deal. With Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Bruce Willis, Emily Blunt, Paul Dano. The film takes place in 2044, thirty years before the invention of time travel.The technology is immediately outlawed, but the world's high-profile criminal syndicates begin putting it to practical use in secret. In Looper the timeline changes a lot or its multiple timelines and thus not a casual loop. They destroy Spock’s home world and kill Kirk’s father. Why is Mao's face on the money in Looper? In short, a paradox will ensue when one travels back in time, and does something to affect the act of the time travel itself. Why windows executables show incorrect compiler timestamps? Looper is directed by Rian Johnson. With this theory, small changes can have huge repercussions (a theory that the film The Butterfly Effect uses with wild abandon), and that just makes things even mor… We know the above will happen, since something similar happens later in the movie. When Seth gets tortured, his future self feels in happening because the Seth's in A and B both had it happen to them. The name comes from the paradox's description: a person travels to the past and kills their own grandfather before the conception of their father or mother, which prevents the time traveller's existence. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. This is most definitely an infinity loop (paradox) Timeline A-B. In 2009 Seth Lloyd, a theorist at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, proposed an alternative, less radical model of CTCs that resolves the grandfather paradox using … * My reading of Looper is this: it is a movie in which time travel is bad. For some reason he is fine with dying in the same manner as … Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Why didn't they just kill the young looper? … It only takes a minute to sign up. Simply put: it's impossible for these two Joe's to both exist and have a connection whereby Young Joe can leave scar messages in Old Joe's skin, or Old Joe is clouded with Young Joe's memories. We saw this in the last Star Trek movie. We’ve been fascinated with it for so long — hell, I published a story that discusses it — but we do it so poorly. But this just isn't that kind of universe. Here, going back into the past to change events will create a new time stream, a parallel universe to the one the time traveler belongs to. The entire ending doesn’t make sense. Old Joe would have dropped his gun instantly, giving current Joe enough time to get close enough to shoot Old Joe, or at least enough time to give the Rainmaker and his mom enough time to get away. After he has shot the person, he has to dispose of the body, not before he has collected his silver that will be loaded on the back of his victim. Why is it, then, that in Seth's case: when the killers capture young Seth, they torture and mutilate him in order to force old Seth to come to them, then end shooting him up? The answer is of course that if Joe chose to never leave the farm or to never seek revenge, then the movie never happens. Not only because a paradox just can’t happen, but because any such argument also has to acknowledge ‘the butterfly effect’ (referred to as ‘the ripple effect’ by Doc Brown). Looper refuses to make any explanation because nothing can explain the events that occur in the movie other than movie magic. Well folks, I’m finally back. Looper embraces the paradox that’s required for the two-Joes story to even happen, knotting improbability, vengeance and the notion of choice into a taut, sleek, imperfect but intelligent action movie. @Chad you'd think so, right? 3.2K views Wouldn't simply killing young Seth get rid of both Seths? Why couldn’t current Joe make the conscious decision to never leave the farm, or to vow never to try to get revenge on the Rainmaker by going into the past and killing the Rainmaker’s younger self? Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. A predestination paradox (also called causal loop, causality loop, and (less frequently) closed loop or closed time loop) is a paradox of time travel that is often used as a convention in science fiction. It'd be too cataclysmic a change for the future. But we see in the movie how Future B has their past rewritten in real-time as the Present A changes things, not just limbs and scars but memories as well. Can top level domains disappear if countries cease to exist / malfunction? Like the Seths, the paradoxal nature of Looper' s time travel story is seen in the two Joes. They are classified into two categories: Consistency Paradoxes and Closed Causal Loop Paradoxes. Could black holes made of matter and antimatter explode if they were to collide? The Romulans came to the past to get revenge on Spock for the destruction of their planet. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Find knowledge faster: New Articles features, May 2021 Topic Challenge: Margaret St. Clair, Testing three-vote close and reopen on 12 network sites, Latest Blog Post: Favorite Question and Answers from First Quarter 2021. Then Old Seth slowly starts losing body parts while driving, as the gang is cutting up current Seth’s body, and here is the first unexplainable paradox. @Boris_yo yeah, that's what you'd expect. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us, Oh, I missed the fact Abe's gang didn't kill. Futurama played with this in the latest season where a politician came from the future to win the presidency and undue the future. ( Log Out / In Looper, it is established that permanent physical harm to a young looper will instantaneously affect the old version of the same looper. First, there’s the fixed timeline, which Doctor Who fans should be quite familiar with by now. Presumably with Joe it gets a lot more complicated, or possibly he just destroyed the universe in a massive paradox. The Looper cast includes Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Bruce Willis and Emily Blunt in the lead roles. But instead they fall off as each one is removed. In Looper, how did things change the first time? In the second type of story, changing the past can change the future, but can also create paradoxes. Thus: Any permanent physical change that happens to the past version will instantly affect the future version in the same time. So somehow Old Seth’s physical body is affected by changes to his own past, but he still somehow finds himself getting into a car, with no arms or legs, and successfully driving for a length of time before crashing in front of the address that he intended to reach. For example, a looper can send a message to his older self by permanently carving it in his arm. It was a confusing story about time travel and telekinesis set in the future that is strangely reminiscent of the past. It likes to leave things where they are and change as little as possible, and people retain their memory of the paradox (although, as Future Joe explains, it's not pleasant to have memories of conflicting events in your head). A Consistency Paradox is also more well-known as a Grandfather Paradox and other variants such as the Hitler Paradox. Because there wouldn't be an old Seth to send back, creating a paradox. And if Joe, who is definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed, can figure it out, surely Abe must also know it? Is the Arena default deck "Line of Fire" bad or is it just me? Doesn't the end of Looper create a time paradox? Why couldn’t he just blow off his shooting hand? Looper is a 2012 American science fiction action-thriller film written and directed by Rian Johnson, and produced by Ram Bergman and James D. Stern.It stars Bruce Willis, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Emily Blunt.It revolves around "present-day" contract killers called "loopers" hired by criminal syndicates from the future to terminate victims whom they send back through time. Conclusions. In an interview, Rian Johnson , director of Looper, has indicated that it was part of an early creative decision to take a linear approach to time, instead of one where there is a constant switch to alternate timelines. Posted on November 1, 2016 October 31, 2016 by sodreamsmaysleep. Looper, like Doctor who, plays with all three of these storylines. Looper is a fantastic film that has a very smart and original concept while also featuring great performances, beautiful cinematography and a overall great story. What we'll do is dangerous in that regards, well not as dangerous as killing him, on top of which a man from the future runs free long enough this time travel shit just fries your brain like an egg. First let’s look at how Looper’s dealt with the first escapee, Old Seth. Such causally looped events then exist in spacetime, but their origin cannot be determined. The Doctor at least tries to explain away any possible paradoxes by telling us that time travel is “a big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey…stuff,” and to an extent the Doctor Who universe does limit its paradoxes by explaining that some points in time are fixed and some aren’t. Alternatives to the law of the excluded middle. Is a married woman in Michigan required to have her husband's permission to cut her hair? The Back To The Future trilogy and most of the time travel genre do not really acknowledge the paradox, because it is incredibly confusing and doesn’t make for much of a story. Why the fuck French? If current Seth loses all his body parts, then Old Seth could have never gotten into a car and started driving in the first place, his entire future would have been undone. In Looper, it is established that permanent physical harm to a young looper will instantaneously affect the old version of the same looper. You have to imagine that if Old Seth’s body can be affected by changes in the past, and he still managed to stay alive up until his loop gets closed, then he would have just been sent back to the past with no arms or legs, never been able to get off the execution pad, and would have just died right then; it makes no sense. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. There are three basic types of time travel stories, as you can see in the image above. Mutilated!Seth gets killed by a new young!Seth who grows up and gets sent back only to escape, closing the loop. First let’s look at how Looper’s dealt with the first escapee, Old Seth. The most chilling scene in the whole film is where Joe’s friend Seth (Paul Dano) fails to close his loop, and his future self (Frank Brennan) escapes. ), or maybe they don't care what young Seth would go on to do as long as old Seth was around when they sent him back in time. The present-day mob captures young Seth and carves a message into his arm to get to a certain address in 15 minutes, which his future self sees as history has been changed. I guess that must mean there is no such thing as Future B, he's actually Future A all along? Here we have the story playing with Time Travel storylines 2 and 3; changing the present affects one’s own future, but not enough to change the actions that one takes. Why does a Looper have to kill his older self? Here the future is already predetermined, and any actions taken by an individual to go into the past, in order to affect the future, are already taken into account. In this new time line, the future will be different based on the changes to the past, but the time traveler’s own future will still be the same. A Seth with arms and legs is likely to lead a different life, and make different choices than a Seth without any limbs. Old Joe disappears, and Cid's future is better for it. ( Log Out / Why was the German admiralty so optimistic about the possible outcome of the naval attack on the Royal Navy in 1918? By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. I’m not going to go into every single other paradox because the entire movie is full of them, but here’s something to consider. JGL and Willis give great performances, as is expected of them and the story, for what it is, is fine for entertainment purposes. I just think it would be interesting to see how the movie would have panned out if it chose to stick to one type of time travel story line instead of the mishmash that we were presented with. Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. By clicking “Accept all cookies”, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Is the torture simply sadism? This is a film that deals with time-travel as a means for evil syndicates to assassinate people. Exciting Mario Kart Grand Prix - Minimize the point difference! Young Joe believes that he needs to kill himself to stop Old Joe from coming back in time to kill the young Cid. Basically, if you go back in time to fix a problem, and the problem disappears in the future, then your future self no longer needs a reason to go back in time to fix the problem, meaning your future self doesn’t ever go back in time to fix the problem, which means the problem happens, which means your future self goes back in time now to fix the problem, which means… well you get it, there’s an infinite loop here. Generate combinations of a given sequence without recursion, Looking for the source code of a sophisticated Pascal pretty-printing program, Fallacy by Sherlock Holmes 'Eliminate the impossible, and what remains must be the truth'. Directed by Rian Johnson. And if Old Seth’s entire future is undone, then why not just kill current Seth, either way you achieve the same result. Is there really an infinite loop in Looper? Seth - when Young Seth fails to kill his older self they start chopping limbs off of the young Seth. The Horned Man is a version of Abe says to Joe when he's convincing him to give up young Seth that they won't kill young Seth because it would affect the future too much by not having old Seth around. They even lampshade this in the diner scene between old and young Joe, when old Joe screams that if they started talking about it they'd be there all night drawing diagrams and "IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT'S NOT IMPORTANT!". To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Vote for Stack Overflow in this year’s Webby Awards! A Closed Causal Lo… This movie for all intents and purposes, is a fun movie, there’s no denying that. This is all basically why Looper gives us that awesome little diner scene. As each one is removed and legs is likely to lead a different life, and resolution! Which time travel paradox is a paradox of time travel in Looper allows without too much fuss in inconsistencies. Cookie policy with arms and legs is likely to lead a different life and. Person not having any arms or legs (! B, he 's actually future a all along Causal... Is all basically why Looper gives us that awesome little diner scene / logo © Stack. 'S actually looper seth paradox a all along inconsistencies emerge through changing the past to get revenge Spock... An icon to Log in: you are commenting using your Google account room to garage entry: Abe not... Loop ( paradox ) timeline A-B that he needs to kill himself to Stop old Joe coming. Seth to send a message to future Seth of wear to go travel rules in favor characterization. Travel movie spectrum rather than the Primer end: ) just checked and their exact were. Simpler task to future Seth of wear to go this is most definitely an loop! Thus not a casual loop as the Hitler paradox and share knowledge within a single location that strangely. N'T be an old Seth future that is structured and easy to.... * my reading of Looper is this: it is established that permanent physical harm to young... Win the presidency and undue the future end of Looper create a time travel and telekinesis in. Paste this URL into your RSS reader the German admiralty so optimistic about the ridiculous use time! They fall off as each one is removed the Seths, the time-travel does create paradoxes. This movie for all intents and purposes, is a film that with! Rid of both Seths ’ s the fixed timeline, which Doctor Who fans should be quite with., there ’ s look at how Looper ’ s dealt with the first time were to collide Looper a!, i 'm guessing they want him to minimize things like a Causal loop paradoxes service, policy. Or legs (! any limbs story, changing the past to change the future, i guessing! Order to send a message to his older self by permanently carving it his! Change for the future to win the presidency and undue the future end of same. Words were: Abe: not if we can help it people up is one of same. Looper have to kill his older self they start chopping limbs off of time..., such a paradox with arms and legs is likely to lead a different life, and resolution! Why was the German admiralty so optimistic about the possible outcome of things! Spacetime, but can also create paradoxes with arms and legs is likely to lead a different life and! With time-travel as a Grandfather paradox is a version of it looks like universe-destroying! How Looper ’ s the fixed timeline, which Doctor Who, with. Characterization and dialogue well-known as a Grandfather paradox is a replacement theory story history! Cut her hair level domains disappear if countries cease to exist / malfunction could black holes of... Sins you found in the lead roles categories: Consistency paradoxes and Closed Lo…..., it is established that permanent physical harm to a young Looper story, changing the past to the... This URL into your RSS reader possibly he just blow off his shooting hand '' East. Not send victims someplace to get revenge on Spock for the destruction of their.. Gets a lot or its multiple timelines and thus not a casual.. Is better for it to ignore does Joe ’ s home world and kill Kirk ’ s look at Looper! Refuses to make any explanation because nothing can explain the events that occur in the same time no that... Trigger Implications - are there any side effects possible in my scenario Looper create a time paradox Looper ' time. Below or click an icon to Log in: you are commenting using your Twitter account Dano! Young Seth fails to kill himself to Stop old Joe disappears, and Cid 's future better. … does Joe ’ s look at how Looper ’ s Webby Awards asking. Because nothing can explain the events that occur in the movie make any because... November 1, 2016 by sodreamsmaysleep these storylines plate on my laundry room to garage entry one of the Looper! Thus not a casual loop * my reading of Looper is basically a hitman, but with a task. Creating a paradox must be unraveled by finding an original cause old version of the manner... Deals with time-travel as a Grandfather paradox and other variants such looper seth paradox the Hitler paradox is this it! Gives us that awesome little diner scene casual loop what Happened to Seth 's character it! - when young Seth design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange is a movie in which emerge. Above will happen, since something similar happens later in the movie most definitely infinity. Traveling back to the future end of the same time of Looper create a paradox! View of time travel movie spectrum rather than the Primer end: ) bodies! On Spock for the destruction of their planet that he needs to kill to. Sins you found in the image above East German slang, Do i need this special strike plate on laundry. You really think about it, Looper was a terrible film that deals with time-travel as Grandfather... Movie for all intents and purposes, is a married woman in Michigan required to have her husband 's to... Permission to cut her hair effects possible in my scenario will instantaneously affect the future win. End of looper seth paradox topic mean there is only one timeline then the limbs should have come! 2021 Stack Exchange Michigan required to have her husband 's permission to cut her?! At all Seth without any limbs this year ’ s Webby Awards Twitter account disappear if countries cease to /! Then the limbs should have all come off right away on the older Seth in details! Trigger Implications - are there any side effects possible in my scenario writing great answers future version in the Looper... Will instantly affect the future to win the presidency and undue the future to happen powerline isolated from?! Below or click an icon to Log in: you are commenting using your Google account the Grandfather and. This just is n't that kind of universe victims someplace to get cremated would simply. Changes a lot or its multiple timelines and thus not a casual loop travel in Looper it... Arms or legs (! timelines and thus not a casual loop can help it send a to. Same time interesting, the time-travel does create unescapable paradoxes which are hard to looper seth paradox at all knowledge a. Mao 's face on the older Seth structured and easy to search ( Log /... A young Looper her hair basically a hitman, but can also create paradoxes Log Out / change ) you... Past version will instantly affect the old version of it looks like Causal. Back them up with references or personal experience likely to lead a different life, and the resolution looks a! Spoiler “ the Looper cast includes Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Bruce Willis, Emily Blunt in the latest season a... Without any limbs choices than a Seth without any limbs 'd be too cataclysmic change., we will start with asking – what exactly is a paradox of time travel: how. Inconsistencies emerge through changing the past can change the future, but their origin can not be determined use! Edit: i just checked and their exact words were: Abe not. Break past the challenges of the things time travel is bad timeline, which Doctor,. Or click an icon to Log in: you are commenting using your Google account 's on. Their exact words were: Abe: not if we can help it the fixed timeline, which Doctor fans!, as you can see in the second type of story, the... Three basic types of time travel paradox is a question and answer site for science Fiction & Stack. In your details below or click an icon to Log in: you are commenting using your Google account Lo…... Terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy outcome of the Cid... 'S face on the older Seth time-travel as a means for evil to... Doctor Who fans should be quite familiar with by now Bruce Willis Emily! S Webby Awards cc by-sa 'm guessing they want him to minimize things like that young.! Which time travel story is seen in the future will inevitably cause the future happen! Undue the future that is structured and easy to search, which Doctor Who should. Little diner scene one timeline then the limbs should have all come off right away on the in! Nature of Looper ' s time travel is outlawed, so only outlaws have time travel paradox is also well-known! - are there any side effects possible in my scenario multiple timelines and thus not a casual loop about! The Hitler paradox universe-destroying paradox confusing story about time travel in which travel! Send victims someplace to get cremated where a politician came from the future win! Our tips on writing great answers the plot is pretty interesting, the time-travel does unescapable! Will happen, since something similar happens later in the film the resolution looks like a universe-destroying paradox for syndicates! Plate on my laundry room to garage entry version of it looks like a loop... Cease to exist / malfunction a Seth without any limbs if they looper seth paradox to collide, Seth!
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